Producer’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Announcer: You’re listening to Inside Bipolar, a Healthline Media Podcast, where we tackle bipolar disorder using real-world examples and the latest research.
Gabe: Hey everybody, and welcome to the podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and I live with bipolar disorder.
Dr. Nicole: And I’m Doctor Nicole Washington, a board certified psychiatrist.
Gabe: We have done workplace mental health before and it’s a it’s a popular topic out there in the universe, but we’ve only ever done a couple of episodes on living with bipolar disorder and working, and astute listeners pointed out that our topics were disclosing bipolar at work and telling people who you work with colleagues, coworkers, etc. that you live with bipolar disorder or getting back to work after an absence and people hit up the email, show it PsychCentral.com and they’re like, you know, I have a job, right? I’ve already told HR, I’ve already done this stuff. But, you know, sometimes I get symptomatic, sometimes I, I become hypomanic, or I have depression or I have anxiety or I have paranoia or I’m just not feeling my best, but I’ve got to stay at work. I can’t just play the bipolar card. I do you have anything for me? And Doctor Nicole and I talked and I was like We do have stuff for you. And here we are. Welcome to this episode of Staying Employed Working through Symptoms.
Dr. Nicole: It is an important topic though, because folks want to function. You have a job, you’d actually like to keep that job. So this episode makes a lot of sense and I’m excited about what we’re going to hit today.
Gabe: So I am excited about it. And I want to cover the low hanging fruit first. First go out and Google work life balance. Workplace mental health. It covers lots of great topics that I think everybody should be aware of. And just because you live with bipolar disorder doesn’t mean that there’s not real knowledge to gain there. I think that sometimes because we’re managing bipolar disorder, we think that other rules don’t apply to us, and they do. And one of the few topics that I want to hit from the whole work life balance thing is having actual guidelines, boundaries around work life and home life. And I think that people in general are bad at this. But I think in particular the intersection with bipolar disorder and working, if you’re on call 24 over seven, if you’re checking work emails at home, if you’re never taking that break, you’re not recharging your batteries. And I think this leaves people with bipolar disorder particularly vulnerable.
Dr. Nicole: It can leave you particularly vulnerable, Gabe. But, you know, the American work system sucks. We we just work people to death and we don’t care about your your home life. If you’ll stay on call 24 over seven, we’ll let you we and we have to figure out how to be the ones to kind of try to change that from the inside, but I, I agree with you. It it is it is terrible when you feel like you can never turn work off.
Gabe: For me. This is an example of take my advice because I’m not using it. As somebody who is self-employed, I really firmly believe that I have to be on call 24 over seven because
Gabe: I don’t know when that next opportunity is going to come in, and especially when it comes to like speaking engagements, for example, or content creation or being on the news, they’re looking for somebody right now. That said, I can affect change in some ways, and
Gabe: I need to focus on that. I need to take breaks. I need to be present in the moments, and some of them can just be as simple as when I have dinner with my wife, I leave the phone off and, you know, dinner takes a half an hour or 45 minutes an hour, let’s say an hour and a half. Even if the second I put my phone down, that email comes in. I do need to realize that responding affirmatively an hour and a half later is not going to cost me the gig, but constantly being on my phone and not being present with my wife could cost me that relationship, that intimacy, and those moments which would ultimately impact bipolar disorder, which would ultimately impact my ability to work. And I do think we need to understand those pieces.
Dr. Nicole: Even in what you just said. The news thing? Yes. When? When media outlets reach out to you, they are usually on pretty tight deadlines. So if you’re in a field and in your career where media people are going to be reaching out to you, those do have pretty tight turnarounds. They need to know if they can count on you right away. But let’s face it, that’s not most people. Most people are not fielding interview requests from media outlets. Most of the people that I work with who are struggling with this work life balance, it’s emails. What kind of email emergencies are there? I mean, there are very few things that if they are true emergencies, somebody’s going to email you about Gabe, even with content creation or somebody reaching out to you to speak, if they reach out to you at 7 p.m. on a Thursday. Do you really think that if you don’t reply to them by bedtime, that somehow you’re going to miss out on that work?
Gabe: I mean, first off, living with bipolar disorder or maybe just being me. Yeah, absolutely. But I recognize that that is unreasonable. And also speaking purely as an entrepreneur, I also need to understand that I’m setting a boundary with a client. Do I really want to make myself available literally within moments 24 over seven
Gabe: And one? That’s bad for my mental health, but it’s also an impossible standard, and I’m going to end up with a very demanding client.
Dr. Nicole: Absolutely. And so for our people who are employed and you’re working and you get those emails at six, seven, 8:00 at night, do you respond to them right away because you also set that expectation that, oh, they’re going to respond to me. I’m going to email them at 9:00, 10:00. They’re going to respond. And I will say I saw this a lot more after the pandemic. So many people were working from home and then that line got really, really fuzzy. And then it just went away and people went from, oh, I work from home to I live at work. And they were on their computers and answering emails all times of day and night because they’re like, oh, I’m at home. It’s fine. It’s no big deal. I’m not doing anything else. Yes you are. You’re resting, you’re enjoying your home time. And so I saw this a ton. I also saw people stop taking leave because they were like, well, I’m just sitting around at home anyway. I might as well be working. No no no no no no, that is not the way to go. So I think as important as these things are for anybody, as we’re always reminding you all, we’re talking about bipolar disorder here, it is that much more important because how do you rest? How do you recharge if you don’t take those vacation days? How do you rest? How do you recharge if you don’t close the laptop and cover it up and don’t look at it in the evenings and not respond to non-emergent things after hours. You just have to figure out ways to do that, and that’s how you’re going to be setting yourself up for success.
Gabe: When it comes to email. I think a real pro tip and again, one that I am not using just just to fully disclose, I think.
Gabe: Yes, this is a this is a do as I say and not as I do, but let’s talk a couple of practical tips. Right. So so first and foremost, the anxiety is not going to just go away. Nobody who is working 24 over seven is going to listen to this podcast and instantly think, all right, I’m not going to do that anymore, right? Myself included. But I do have some action steps that people can take that I think that will assuage some of that fear and allow them to have more work life balance. One of the things that I think that people don’t utilize enough is the email autoresponder, right? Have it auto respond if outside of normal hours, decide what your business hours are, what your work hours are, and decide what your home hours are. During those home hours, have an email bounce back and say, hey, I work Monday through Friday, 9 to 6. Outside of those hours, if it’s an emergency, please call my phone and then you can keep your phone on you. But now you’re not constantly checking those emails. You’re not constantly checking those texts. If the phone alerts you, call them back, right? But you’ve also given that immediate response.
Gabe: You’ve let people know that if it’s a true emergency, they can reach out to you. I think this accomplishes what we’re trying to do here, which is assuage our own anxiety and fear and also have that time off that. But there’s two parts of this, and I want to make sure that people hear this one. You also have to decide what your working hours are. And that can be difficult as well. You know, I just threw out 9 to 6. I don’t even think that’s true. I’m now second guessing myself, maybe 7 to 7. But whatever it is, you’ve got to stick to it. Remember, we’ve talked about how routines with bipolar disorder are important. I think being on call 24/7, not having work life balance means you don’t have a good routine because you’re always one moment away from the next work issue, which means you’re not in the moment at home, which means you’re not recharging those batteries, which means you’re setting yourself up to fail at work.
Dr. Nicole: Okay. I mean, that could be valuable. But I do think that in most employed situations, everybody knows what your work hours are because everybody’s got the same work hours in in most settings for people who are not self-employed or entrepreneurs or, you know, in business for themselves. We all know the person that works down the hall knows because they got the same work hours. They know what time you are supposed to be at work and what time you’re not supposed to be at work. But I do think it can be valuable to say, you know, I don’t have access to my emails after hours. You know, I will get back to you. You know, the next work day. Those kinds of things. I think that could be a good reminder. But People that work with you, they know your hours.
Gabe: And that comes down to a boundaries conversation, which I think is my next action step, right? Set those boundaries. Say I work from 9 to 5 Monday through Friday. Don’t be calling me outside of these hours. Don’t don’t do that. I’m not at work now. And set that hard boundary. And if they do call, don’t answer. Say these, these are not my work hours. Now, obviously, if you have a a job where you are on call, you have accepted that job, you are compensated for that job. And and you’re going to have to make different decisions. Obviously, you’re going to have to make different adjustments depending on your career. But I do think that if you have not at least considered your boundaries and set them and sketched it out, you’re moving really far away from routine. And with bipolar disorder, we know how valuable routine is. Now, Doctor Nicole, I want to move into another area. I
Gabe: Want to I want to flip the script for a moment.
Dr. Nicole: Okay, bring it on.
Gabe: You’re sitting at work and your anxiety shoots up. Your depression shoots up. Some symptom of bipolar disorder is standing in between you and your ability to work. And you’re at work. You’re physically in the building. The coworkers are going by. Your boss is down the hall looking at you. You have completely frozen because of this symptom. And what do you do? This happens to a lot of people. And pick your poison on the symptom, right?
Gabe: It just all we really need to understand is that some symptom of bipolar disorder that you have identified is preventing you from working, and everybody’s watching you, not work. Go fix it, doctor Nicole fix it. [Laughter]
Dr. Nicole: Do you really think, though, that everybody’s watching you? Not worry. Now, I will say this. There are times when your particular symptoms may be significant enough that they’re noticeable to outside people. But I do think that a lot of times you think everybody must have seen that. Everybody must have known everybody. But did they really?
Gabe: Right? I mean, of course they knew. They know everything. Everybody is paying attention to me 100% of the time.
Gabe: That is, I don’t understand. Are you saying that’s not true?
Dr. Nicole: I am saying that everybody in that job is probably struggling with something, and they’re all minding their business for the most part. You know, there’s always that one person who’s in everybody else’s business, but for the most part, folks are doing their own thing. People are not that invested in other people’s stuff, so they’re probably not paying as much attention to you as you think they are. So I would I would encourage you, when you get to that moment where you feel like, oh my gosh, it’s happening. Something’s going on inside of me that won’t allow me to do what I need to do in this moment that you have a plan on. Okay, what do I do in that moment? I’m a big fan of going to the restroom because most people won’t bother you if you say, oh, I need to run to the restroom for a minute. Take your phone. I am a huge fan of little one two, three minute meditations on the phone. Whether it’s some that you pull up from an app, or whether it’s affirmations that you have prerecorded for yourself during these times to play, and it’s literally one minute of you reminding yourself how to work through this. What you need to do. I’m a huge fan of bathroom breaks because I think bathroom breaks can be extremely valuable, especially in a situation where you feel like you’ve all of a sudden been hit with something that you weren’t expecting.
Gabe: We’ve talked about on this podcast before, the fake diarrhea, put your hands on your stomach and run into a bathroom, and nobody’s going to ask you any questions. And it is funny every time I say it. But like you said, if people truly are paying attention to you, they’re not getting involved with the person running to the bathroom clutching their stomach. But I want to go back to what you said about people not paying attention to you. You’re you’re probably right. If the symptom is so large that people notice, we might be looking at medical care, and I think that might be outside of the scope of that might be into into bipolar crisis at work and outside of the scope of this. So I, you know, I want to talk about the thing that is really self-contained. It’s happening internally. I think you’re right, Doctor Nicole, I think it’s wise to realize that one, the average person is not going to notice, and two, the average coworker, the average boss, the average employee, the average human has also gone through it. Not a symptom of bipolar disorder, but worried about their family or worried about money. Worried about something that they have to do. Later that day, a doctor’s appointment, an argument they got into with their spouse or their friend. Or maybe they just have what do they call that spring fever, where they’re just staring out the window and they can’t focus because it’s such a beautiful day and they’re just like, God, I don’t want to be here. And that has nothing to do with bipolar disorder.
Gabe: And I would venture to guess that if you think about all of your coworkers, you have not noticed their moments of non-productivity. You just don’t because you’re not hyper focused on them any more than they’re hyper focused on you. I think that’s a really good pro tip to remember. Probably nobody knows but you, and now it’s important. What’s your next step? Don’t worry about everybody else.
Gabe: Make a plan in the moment to get back to productivity.
Dr. Nicole: And taking that bathroom break is a usually a really really good way to do that as a good reset. Because like you said nobody nobody stops people from going to the restroom, even if you aren’t quite as dramatic as holding your stomach and running like you’re about to blow, you know, like, oh, she’s about to blow. Even if you just say, oh, I need to go to the restroom. Typically people aren’t saying, well, but can you just hold it? Can you wait? Can you? Most people are going to get out of your way and let you go. Do what you need to do.
Gabe: What we’re talking about action items, I think we need to talk about, like laying the groundwork. Right? In some jobs, like, for example, my job, I can pretty much just get up whenever I want. I don’t have to explain my absence to anybody, so I don’t have to take a bathroom break. I can just take a five minute break and then come back to podcasting, editing, etc.. Right? I can just be honest now if I’m working with you and I have an issue, doc Nicole, I can just tell you because you know that I have bipolar disorder, but I want to talk to my people who they’re not out at work, they’re not letting people know, and they’re in an industry where they can’t just disappear without telling people, whether it’s customer service, whether it’s on call, whether it’s whatever it is, they need to let somebody know. I think a good action step, a good ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, is to set this up in advance. Don’t wait until the house is on fire to have a fire drill. Say to people, hey, you know, this is a this is a stressful job, and sometimes I just need a couple of minute break. Will you cover for me if I need to? Step outside and I’ll do the same for you. And let people know that. Find people that you vibe with, that you trust that you’re good and just
Gabe: Be like, I need two minutes. Can you cover for me? And they’re like, yes. And then when they say, I need two minutes, can you cover for me? You say, yes, you don’t have to disclose bipolar disorder at all. Just just blame it on being overwhelmed. This is something that is more accepted that I think this current generation and workplaces in 2024 actually respect more so than they did 25 years ago when breaks were looked at as weakness. I think that’s actually a real plus in the mental health movement. And the people with bipolar disorder listening should, should really set those things up in advance. I think they will pay huge dividends.
Dr. Nicole: I think you’re absolutely right. I can remember when breaks were frowned upon. It wasn’t something that you did. It was it was, you know who took breaks? Smokers. I’ve, I’ve
Dr. Nicole: Literally joked for years that I was going to get me some candy cigarettes and start fake smoking with the smoke people with the with the smokers on their smoke breaks because they literally took breaks twice a day, rain or shine. They didn’t care. They were out there getting their breaks. I was going to get some candy cigarettes and just go stand on the corner maybe a couple feet away because I didn’t want to inhale the smoke, but I definitely wanted to go outside and get the break. But you’re right, we have we have come a long way, I think, as it relates to that kind of thing. And that’s one of the things I’m really hopeful that we’ll see this new generation of workers take advantage of and and just feel more comfortable saying, oh, yeah, I’m taking a break because we could all use a break. I mean, I don’t care what you do, you can everyone can use a break.
Gabe: I completely agree. Now let’s talk about when you can’t take a break there. I have so many tips for creating an environment where you feel more comfortable. And again, it’s really hard because all workplaces are different. So, you know, obviously it can’t be one size fits all. But I’m really big on distraction. I
Gabe: Really like distraction. Now I have a desk job, so I have a lot of things at my desk to calm my mind. And, and for example, I, I have a little minion, little squeezable minion, I have a little squeezable burrito, I have a little squeezable. I don’t even know what the hell this thing is, but it’s squishy and I like it. And it’s tactile. And because I’m a podcaster, they’re all quiet, but they allow me to distract my mind if I’m experiencing some stress while I’m at work, and I’ve created them for my environment also in my little office. And it’s, you know, you can’t see it unless you’re watching the video. But, you know, I have like, like pictures in front of me that, that I’ve hung on the wall and I’ve. I’ve painted the wall and I’ve, I’ve put stuff that I’m proud of around me just to kind of calm me and help.
Dr. Nicole: Okay, well that’s great, but what about people who don’t have an office? What about folks who are walking around, or they’re in a cubicle with a lot of other people? What do they do?
Gabe: So I asked some people, so I work with police officers and as you know, they don’t have desks at all. They’re out in the community. And I got a couple of hints. One, a large number of them talked about actually carrying fidget toys in their pockets. I was a little surprised, but they do. And I was like, oh, that’s neat. But the one thing that they said is many of them took off their hats and they have family photos in there. That’s, that’s not a TV thing. That was a real thing that police officers do, because that way they can take off their hats and see their, their, their spouses, their children, their friends, their families, good times and things like that. They also talked about decorating their lockers, you know, like having things. So when they get off work, they immediately open their locker and they see something pretty, you know, pictures on the side or whatever. So they tried to control their environment as much as they could. And finally, and honestly, I don’t know why I didn’t think of this on my own. Almost every service professional I ever talked to is like, oh, I take a couple of minutes and just scroll through pictures on my phone. I take so many pictures of vacations, my children, friends, family, spouses, etc. and you know, when I just need a break, I just yank out my phone and I just start scrolling. I don’t get on social media because I don’t need that drama. I’m looking at my own pictures, and then a good number of people actually said that they do scroll social media, that they have curated their social media to be uplifting, and they only look at, you know, Instagrams, TikToks of inspiring people that motivate them. And
Gabe: This is a way that they can control their environment in their little pocket. So. So I really liked all of those tips for managing bipolar disorder, anxiety, depression, a mental health issue at work, and I’m surprised I didn’t think of many of them. And it was it was nice to learn. It was nice to learn.
Dr. Nicole: Oh, Gabe, you’re like, I’m surprised I didn’t come up with these on my own. These are great ideas. [Laughter]
Gabe: And we’re back discussing bipolar disorder in the workplace – staying employed. What I like about the idea is it’s not just that they’re great. I believe they’re easy to implement.
Gabe: You know, sometimes you listen to these podcasts and they’re like, okay,
Gabe: Here’s what you need to do. First, buy beachfront Malibu property and then build your dream house on the beach. And then listen to the ocean every night. This is the best way to fall asleep. And the person listening is like, did this? Did this dude just tell me to spend $7 million? I make 1650 an hour and they charge me 50% for health insurance. And he just told me to move to Malibu. So I they were so simple, Dr. Nicole.
Dr. Nicole: Yeah. We love them, the simple.
Gabe: I really feel that anyone can implement them in almost any job.
Dr. Nicole: Oh, we absolutely love things that are easy. And you can do quickly. And they don’t require you to spend any money, any more money than you’ve already spent. Those are great, great ideas.
Gabe: wAnother one that that that I heard about was exercise. And and I didn’t even want to include this, but, you know, I going for a walk on a break, walking around the building, getting some fresh air. I don’t mean joining a gym, although that’s on the list. You know, some workplaces have gyms or,
Gabe: You know, you got the gym down the street that you can go to on your lunch hour if you if you really want to be. But, you know, a lot of the research I read on managing stress at work and managing bipolar disorder at work really involved, you know, taking a walk on a break or
Gabe: Incorporating exercise into your lunch hour to really get that boost for the afternoon. Now, now, I myself rolled my eyes really, really hard and didn’t want to cover it. But Doctor Nicole being a doctor was like, physical health is important and here we are.
Dr. Nicole: It is. But not. But even beyond. Oh, you should exercise. Physical health is important. Just stepping outside. If you’re in a place and the weather’s decent, just stepping outside and walking to your car and back or walking around the building or any of those things can just help. It can help. It can help as a distraction because you go outside and you see things and you hear things, you smell things and you, you, you can distract yourself from whatever it was that was on your mind. But how many of y’all who work in a building actually leave for lunch? So many people just sit at their desk and just work through lunch. When was the last time you actually took a lunch? I think those things can be very valuable and it doesn’t have to be, oh, I’m spending money on food. I’m going out to eat. I can’t afford to go to a restaurant. Bring your lunch, but maybe go eat it outside. Go in your car park in a local park, do just a change of scenery to get you away from that desk can be extremely helpful, especially if you’re having a lot of stress at work and it’s building up its. And if you know you’re the kind of person where my stress builds up and all of a sudden here I am, I know that I’m setting myself up for bad juju later on today. You absolutely should be stepping outside at lunchtime, taking that lunch away from the office just so you can reset and be ready to handle the rest of the day.
Gabe: I’m glad that you focused on lunch. First off, I’m cheering at the getting outside of the environment, the change of scenery. I just I know you said it and now I sound stupid echoing it, but I am a huge, huge, huge proponent as somebody who lives with bipolar disorder, of the removing myself from the situation. And I think this is good advice everywhere. But sometimes you just need to get out of the space. You just need to get out of the space to to to stop the thoughts from ruminating to, to to stop the momentum from coming at you. I just I cannot stress what good advice it is to just change up the scenery. I like that advice. You putting it with exercise made it kind of suck. But I’m glad that you talked about lunch, because if you’re anything like me and I think that a lot of people with bipolar disorder, if they’re honest, they are a lot like me. You mindlessly eat, and I think if we’re bored at work, if we’re stressed at work, if we’re panicked at work, we turn to food as a coping mechanism. And I and I want to talk about this mindless eating for a moment because, you know, often we’re not mindlessly eating carrots, we’re mindlessly eating vending machine foods or mindlessly eating fast foods, or mindlessly eating inexpensive foods that are readily available that are high in sugar, high in fat, high in salt.
Gabe: And these things, whether you have bipolar disorder or not, tend to make you feel badly. And if you have depression on top of that, this is not going to make it better. And yes, I know this is the worst advice ever. So Gabe is telling us to eat better. That’s great, I am, I am telling you that. But I’m going to give you a practical tip. I think packing your lunch and packing snacks and keeping them in your desk, things like low fat foods, things that you know don’t irritate your stomach, things that provide a lift, packing a banana, packing carrots, packing celery, buying something ahead of time and preparing it in the little Ziploc baggies. Put in a little insulated bag and putting it in your desk when you get there. So when you get stressed out and you’re like, look, I just need that tactile feel of having something in my mouth, it becomes a carrot stick instead of a Twinkie, because the Twinkie is going to make you feel worse, and the carrot stick is going to make you feel better. And I think this is where a little planning goes a long way, because I think many people kind of just nosh on junk food all day, and they don’t
Gabe: Understand why they feel bad.
Dr. Nicole: Yeah, but these are kind of long game decisions. Because in the moment, if I, if you put a carrot in my hand and I bite it, I’m going to be like, oh, I ate a carrot. Okay. But if you give me, like, something really great, I’m going to bite into it and I’m going to think, oh, that is so good. Like in the moment, it’s going to feel so great. So these are long game decisions because it’s down the road that eating the Twinkie and the ding dong, it might be later that day that you feel that heavy feeling. It might be, you know, an hour later and all of a sudden you got the itis because you’ve eaten too many carbs in your snack. But eating that carrot, you’re not going to feel weighed down or bogged down or sleepy or anything like that. So you do have to think about the long game, because I know somebody was listening and thinking, Gabe, do you really think I’m going to feel good if I eat a carrot better than if I eat a Twinkie? Probably not. In the moment? No. Longer? Yes.
Gabe: I think this podcast is all about the long game. It’s about thinking of things differently, and it’s about what do you always say? You know, stay ready so you don’t have to get ready?
Dr. Nicole: So you don’t have to get ready.
Gabe: And I really think that when we look at our entire day and we realize that we have these propensities, finding what we can keep in our lockers, our desks, our cars, whatever that are healthier or better choices, I’m just going to go with better. You know, I went to carrots because I know that, you know, vegetables are good. But, you know, sometimes that granola bar, which is kind of mid-range, I wouldn’t call, you know, the average granola bar a healthy snack, but it is better than a Twinkie. And I know that when I eat a Twinkie, I feel weighted down and sick and I feel bad. And, you know, that hour later I get that crash. Whereas when I eat the granola bar, I don’t feel as bad. So,
Gabe: You know, again, let’s let’s not let perfection get in the way of progress. Switching out all your Twinkies, your donuts, your your muffins, your cakes with even like a I don’t want to name brand names, but your average, you know, granola bar or energy bar or snacking bar. It could be for you an improvement. And I think that’s very valuable to consider, because I do know how food can really drag us down. And I’m not even just talking about the impacts that these foods have on us physically. Right. I do think we need to touch on the impact that these foods can have on us mentally, where we get really, really stressed out. We stand up, we run over to the vending machine, the local convenience store, and we grab that bag of chips, those Twinkies, etc. and then an hour later we’re like, why did I do that? Why did I do that? I can’t, you know, stress is part of my job. I knew this was going to happen. I can’t believe I handled it this way. So so I do think that understanding those things and doing a little bit of preparation can make us not have those regretful moments. But, but, Doctor Nicole, you did inspire me for a moment, right?
Gabe: Let’s say you’re working on a big project, right?
Gabe: You got you got that big project,
Gabe: Right? I also think that there is a time for Twinkies.
Gabe: There is a time for donuts. And I think that you can say, hey, look, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to buckle down and I’m going to focus and I’m going to get this project done. And as soon as this project is done, I’m going to reward myself with a jelly filled donut. I think there’s good wisdom in that as well.
Dr. Nicole: Okay. I mean, I would choose something other than a jelly filled donut, but
Gabe: I went straight for jelly filled donut.
Dr. Nicole: I don’t like jelly filled donuts. I’m sorry.
Gabe: Piece of cake. Can we have cake?
Dr. Nicole: I can, I can do, I can do cake. Yeah. Cake would make me happy.
Dr. Nicole: A cake to celebrate would make me would make me happy. So. Yeah. I mean, I think treats are fine, but they are just that.
Gabe: And moderation is key.
Dr. Nicole: I was going to say a treat is fine, but they’re just that they’re treats. They’re not part of your everyday. And especially if you’re somebody who knows that you are prone to crashing the second half of the day, you might want to take a step back and think about what what am I eating through in the morning? What am I eating at lunch? What am I eating? Because that could be adding to some of that crash later in the day for sure.
Gabe: And I think this is a great segue into trying to control as much of your day as possible. This is where routine at work, it’s much more difficult because you’ve got to involve other people. And this is where a little bit of self-advocacy comes into. This is where a little bit of disclosure with HR or your boss might be necessary. And this is where choosing a job, where you are set up to excel can be very, very handy. Now, I know all of those things are easier said than done, but I know people with bipolar disorder who really excel at work are controlling as many variables as they can. They are finding jobs where they can excel the best to self-disclose. One of my first jobs when I was young was working in a network’s operations center. Now, for those who don’t know what a NOC is, it’s where we monitor computer networks. Now, when computer networks go out, bad things happen. You know, flights get canceled, power goes out, credit card goes down. So the reason that I bring that up is because my job was mostly boring, because when everything worked, I needed to do nothing. But when things broke, the company that I worked for was losing millions of dollars a minute and everybody and their brother was paged and screaming at me to fix it.
Gabe: In the early days, I was able to handle that stress, and I excelled in that environment. As I got sicker, as I got more compromised, as the stress got, I could not handle that environment. And ultimately I had to make the decision to switch careers because that was not a safe environment where I could excel. And I’ve thought about this a lot, especially in preparation for this episode. There is no Doctor Nicole, there is no podcast. There is no blog that could have ever made Gabe Howard excel in that job. It is just an unfortunate reality that I could not handle the stress and the pace. It was not good for my mental health, and I’m very fortunate that I was able to realize that and find another job. But it was very stressful. I took a huge pay cut for a long time, and I really mourned the loss of that job, so that that’s an advanced move. But sometimes the best way to manage bipolar disorder at work is to make sure you’re in the right job.
Gabe: And that is a very unique thing and something that you should work out in therapy, something you should work out with your support system, something that you really need to discuss internally. And I do feel that this was worth mentioning in this episode, but sometimes people with bipolar disorder need to go to occupational counseling. They need to go to vocational rehab. They need to be, you know, completely trained to do something new and work with agencies and and organizations that are set up to help people with bipolar disorder figure out where they can excel. And I want you to know that as an exceptionally powerful thing to do, to be able to say, I need help, I’m not sure where to go. Here is an agency that can help me. That is incredible. And so many people with bipolar disorder are like, well, I failed and I had to go to a special class. I’m like, no, no, that, that that’s the success. That is amazing. You know, Doctor Nicole did not become a doctor by saying, I don’t need help. No, she became a doctor by going to medical school. And I really see it as the same way. I am very proud of my voc rehab training. I am
Gabe: Very proud of learning new skills. I am very proud of going to community college and relearning this. But I do want to tell the audience I wasn’t proud on day one. I really did see it as a I failed and now I’m stuck in this class with other failures and that was the wrong way to look at it. And I did want to touch on that in this episode.
Dr. Nicole: Yeah, I think voc rehab and and being willing to consider pivoting is valuable. But sometimes you don’t need to do that. Sometimes you might just need some adjustments or accommodations in your current position, and those things can be available to you. If you’ve been at a position for a while and you have a good reputation with your company, and your company can allow this. Sometimes you can even talk to your supervisor or talk to HR about a temporary shift in schedule. Sometimes you might just need a little bit of a different shift. I have some patients who have been able to successfully navigate working with their supervisors and HR on making adjustments to their schedule if they need to, if they come in late and stay later, or working from home a day here or there. Some people utilize FMLA leave to help them when they’re having symptoms of an illness. And so if you are employed for the past year with your employer or if you’ve worked, I think it’s like 1250 hours, I think the year before with your employer and you work for a company that employs more than 50 people, you may qualify for FMLA leave. And so you may go talk to your HR. One of the things that people don’t always know, people think FMLA and they say, well, I don’t I don’t need to take leave from work.
Dr. Nicole: Like I don’t need to just not work for 12 weeks. I need to work. I need the money. Like I can’t afford to just go on leave. But what you don’t know is that there is within that FMLA act, there is a provision for people who need to take intermittent leave. This has been very valuable for my folks who have illnesses like bipolar disorder and who are maybe symptomatic and in the middle of a medication adjustment. Sometimes they can get to work and they get that first half of the day done, and then they’re spent and they have nothing else for the afternoon. The FMLA paperwork that I’ve completed for them gives them the flexibility to be able to say, you know what, I need to leave two hours early today because I’m my son. I’ve got symptoms. I’m just not going to be able to fulfill the duties of this position. I need to take a little step back. They may call in one day a week or, you know, every couple of weeks. And we of course, we try to keep it to a minimum. And we’re working to adjust meds to get them feeling better to where they don’t have to take the leave. But it can be a temporary, a temporary solution for you because it can protect your job while you’re working through getting your symptoms under better control.
Gabe: And we did a real deep dive on this in the podcast episode Workplace Disclosure of Bipolar Disorder. So I highly recommend you look that up on your favorite podcast player right now. We love it when you listen to multiple episodes, but you’re absolutely right. Sometimes the best way to manage the symptoms of bipolar disorder at work is to take that break. It is to to take that step back for a couple of hours. It’s to realize that the shift that you’re on isn’t the good shift. For example, when I first started working in the network’s operations center, I worked nights and weekends. You can see why I was the youngest person. I was the last one in the door. That’s the shift nobody wants. People want to work, you know, Monday through Friday, right? They want to be with their families and their friends. They want to work a typical schedule. But nights weren’t the best for me. The first thing I tried before leaving that job was I tried to get a more normal shift instead of a 12 hour shift overnight. I got an eight hour shift during the day and that did push me down the road. I was able to stay at that job another year or so before ultimately deciding that I couldn’t handle it.
Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I tell people all the time that bipolar disorder does not have to derail your career plans. You know, we know most people are diagnosed when they’re in their 20s, which is the time when people are thinking, oh, I want to be an accountant. I want to run a fortune 500 company. I want to be a doctor. I want to be a lawyer. I want to become a judge. I want to be a public official. And then they get this diagnosis and people will start to think like, oh, I guess that’s that. I guess that’s the end of that. It doesn’t have to be. You can And be successful with bipolar disorder. But it also doesn’t mean that if you are somebody who says, you know what, I don’t want to be a doctor or a lawyer. I don’t want to be a judge. I would like to be a welder because that suits me better. Then you know what? Then you just go out there and do that and be the best welder you can be, but you still are going to have to make adjustments along the way, because whether you’re the welder or whether you’re a surgeon, you still have to think about schedule and how much sleep do I get and how do I take care of my body in a way that allows me to continue to do this job safely? But it can be done regardless of where you fall on the career spectrum?
Gabe: I love that you brought up welders, because the first thing I thought about is my nephew, who’s a welder, and he makes bank. Oh, my God, welders make so much money. But you’re right. You got to find where you fit in and
Gabe: Where you excel and and listen, This is life, right? You’ve got to find your unique skill set and the thing that you like to do and the thing that you can tolerate day after day. In our case, we have to do all of that while managing bipolar disorder. But everybody on earth is doing this. Everybody
Gabe: On earth is finding that job where they can have just the right balance of, I’m earning a living and feeding myself, and I’m content at work. And that’s just part of the human experience, whether you have bipolar disorder or not. We just happen to have to manage bipolar disorder at the same time. Doctor Nicole, you kick ass. I just I want to say that I
Gabe: Don’t feel that it gets said enough. I appreciate everything that you do for people with bipolar disorder. And I am super, super glad you’re here. Thank you for your wisdom.
Dr. Nicole: Oh, Gabe, you’re gonna make me blush.
Gabe: Aww, [Laughter]. All right, everybody, thank you so much for being here. We need some favors first. Wherever you downloaded this episode, please follow or subscribe to the show. It is absolutely free, and it’s the best way to ensure that you don’t miss anything. Next, share the show with the people you know. Share your favorite episodes on social media. Discuss your favorite episodes in support groups, on threads, wherever. Just talk about the Inside Bipolar podcast, because sharing the show with the people you know is how we’re going to grow. My name is Gabe Howard and I am an award winning public speaker. And I would love to speak at your event. Just hit me up at gabehoward.com. I also wrote the book “Mental Illness Is an Asshole and Other Observations,” which you can get on Amazon, but you can also get it over on my website. Finally, follow me @AskABipolar on TikTok and Instagram. You can even see clips of this very show.
Dr. Nicole: And I’m Doctor Nicole Washington. You can find me on all social media platforms @DrNicolePsych or at my website, doctor DrNicolePsych.com.
Gabe: And we’ll see everybody next time on Inside Bipolar.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to Inside Bipolar from Healthline Media and psychcentral.com. Have feedback for the show? E-mail us at [email protected]. Previous episodes can be found at psychcentral.com/ibp or on your favorite podcast player. Thank you for listening.
